Author Topic: Electric needle Valve? (Read 31570 times)

ShiFu · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2018, 12:07:20 PM »

No camera today (my photographer took the day off for some shopping).
A few new bits arrived and I'll be playing with those.
Mostly its the little gantry that grabs my attention.

ShiFu · « **Reply #21 on:** November 14, 2018, 04:59:29 AM »

Well, the new parts are taking longer to arrive than was expected.
There was a major shopping holiday here called 11/11 (November 11th) and it was huge.
All of the delivery companies are backed up with packages to deliver.

I'm waiting on the second gantry to arrive. The first gantry is a different kind and it has arrived (I'm very impressed with it).
And some nice little limit switch modules are on order.

In bigger news, I've contracted a guy to help with the programming since I am really not good at it.
Fingers are crossed there, you just never know what you are going to get. It could be garbage or it could be wonderful, just never know ahead of time.

Electric needle Valve?

gantry1.png (67.52 kB. 350x262 - viewed 780 times.)

swestill · « **Reply #22 on:** November 14, 2018, 07:05:56 PM »

Haha i thought you didn't have time for this right now? I know the feeling when you start thinking of something its hard to stop. But in the end this could be very good together with the e-parrot .

Cheers

ShiFu · « **Reply #23 on:** November 20, 2018, 05:05:33 PM »

The work continues.

Got the basic menu working now for the display shield.
Temperature sensor is reading correctly and it is updating to the display.
Limit switches and stepper motor has basic functionality and can be controlled by the display.

Lots left to do, of course, but this is very good so far.

Got auto-homing of the stepper motor to stop when it touches the limit switch (as seen in the video), and it displays that to the LCD display.

A few more tweaks to the menu and we'll start to tackle the P I D implementation.

SO MANY WAYS to improve this right now and it is one baby step at a time. This IS happening. And I am excited to be part of it.

But it is slow. Everyday there is both setbacks and victories. But every single day there is progress.

Now we are finally past the hardware interface (mostly), and we are slowly testing every little thing that is necessary for....

The Valve To Automatically Control The Condenser Temperature With Accuracy.

ShiFu · « **Reply #24 on:** November 20, 2018, 07:01:43 PM »

ShiFu · « **Reply #25 on:** November 20, 2018, 07:12:35 PM »

More to follow as it becomes available.

This is so very cool. Real control of the still.

ketel3 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 21, 2018, 12:14:01 AM »

Great to follow this project,and see it develope step by step.
Quistion this is a push connect valve,and not a needle valve are they interchangeable ?

ShiFu · « **Reply #27 on:** November 21, 2018, 04:13:38 AM »

A push connect valve is a needle valve. It is just made so that the tubing connects easily.

ketel3 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 21, 2018, 09:46:15 PM »

Ok I did not know that BUT you can not use it for product take of,and for a LM system you need that.
And for a VM also , only for a deplegmater this one is ok or do I overlook something ?

Stainless steel valve is needed.

ketel3 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 21, 2018, 10:23:41 PM »

On our new forum some experiments are on the go.
One of them is shown here.
SEE THE FINE EPARROT TOO he is using.

he solved the start and stop,some more experiments are in progress there!into the same topic.
Powered by raspberry pi .

ShiFu · « **Reply #30 on:** November 22, 2018, 02:03:53 PM »

Wow! Very nice valve setup.

They got their's working already and I don't have the PID controls in place yet.

ShiFu · « **Reply #31 on:** November 22, 2018, 02:10:11 PM »

Quote from: ketel3 on November 21, 2018, 09:46:15 PM

Ok I did not know that BUT you can not use it for product take of,and for a LM system you need that.
And for a VM also , only for a deplegmater this one is ok or do I overlook something ?

Stainless steel valve is needed.

I'm sure you are right, if the alcohol touches the inside of the valve then everything needs to be copper or stainless.

Everything I am doing so far is to control the cooling water temperature but if and when that gets solved then the electronics should work for any kind or size of needle valve - just need to match it to the right motor.

ketel3 · « **Reply #32 on:** November 22, 2018, 08:36:40 PM »

The working is the same ,so no problem at all.
Maybe one can learn from each other,I have send him your movie also.
This is so great to see how things are growing step.

The system he showzs will be part of a greater project controlling the complete system,and monitor true smart phone , tablet ,or windows bases computer ,that is the plan ,together with another forum member they are busy with that project.
But it just started.

ShiFu · « **Reply #33 on:** November 24, 2018, 06:38:32 PM »

The work continues...

Actually, it seems I now have a working PID condenser controller! Dance on the kitchen table and invite the relatives.

Finally.

Tomorrow, if it is not raining, I'll set up the still and try it out.
Mrs. Shifu has banned me from ever distilling indoors ever again so I must wait for a clear day. It has been raining all day today.

I do not expect the first trial to be 100%. There are simply too many variables and settings to try and to adjust.
Then a bit of code reworking to fine tune the thing, perhaps.
So it may take a few tries to nail this thing down.

This was hard, really hard. A battle every step of the way. And finally I am now looking forward to testing this on my still. (More footprints on my kitchen table if successful)

This thread is under the Liquid Management category but I don't run a LM still, mine is a bubble cap CM (cooling management) still so I'm not entirely sure if this project will carry over well to LM. I can also configure my still for ceramic pineapples, or many other types of column packing including SPP, but it is always a CM still.

ketel3 · « **Reply #34 on:** November 24, 2018, 07:13:29 PM »

Well that is great news but questions as always.
Were is the sensor located for the pid function ?
WHY it is suddenly mrs SHIFU and not SHE or TAN ? , now I'am confused.

No distilling inside with all the safety's of the eparrot it is more safe than using the oven or the hair drier.

Maybe change the name into LM and VM topic.

swestill · « **Reply #35 on:** November 24, 2018, 10:02:43 PM »

Wonderfull news that you are moving forward.
The differens between cm and lm is that you want to close the valve as the temp rise in the column but for cm you want to open the valve for more water. So it has the same function to increase reflux but function the opposed way.

If it works god i can use this for my cm still so i keep watching your trials .

Best of luck from Sweden

swestill · « **Reply #36 on:** November 24, 2018, 10:23:44 PM »

Like k3 I've allsow have some questions. How many sensors do you use? In my thoughts for lm mode it must have minimum two sensors in the column if theirs a point in having a needlevalv. If its just on and off it's easier to use a solenoid valve and a pid.
But if two the program can close a bit at the time and if the higher temp reaches the highest pid the valve closes fully to Let the column stabilise and then open again.

Next question is. Is it going to bee an option as my topic that you can manually regulate the valve from the control?

ShiFu · « **Reply #37 on:** November 25, 2018, 08:28:58 AM »

Quote from: swestill on November 24, 2018, 10:23:44 PM

Like k3 I've allsow have some questions. How many sensors do you use? In my thoughts for lm mode it must have minimum two sensors in the column if theirs a point in having a needlevalv. If its just on and off it's easier to use a solenoid valve and a pid.
But if two the program can close a bit at the time and if the higher temp reaches the highest pid the valve closes fully to Let the column stabilise and then open again.

Next question is. Is it going to bee an option as my topic that you can manually regulate the valve from the control?

I have a sensor in the very top of the column, SMT172 for the eParrot to measure the ABV.
I will disable the eParrot sensors for the two DS18B20s that are for measuring water temperatures - one for the reflux condenser at the top of the column and the other is for the product condenser. I'll use those for the new PID controllers. I plan to use 2 controllers, one for the reflux and another for the product condenser. The first will control the purity of the product and the second will help to save water while maintaining a constant condenser temperature.

The boiler temperature and pressure sensors will not be changed.

There is no manual regulation unless you change the Setpoint. That is the desired temperature that you want.
But there is a secret and hidden function to manually Fully Open or Fully Close the valve. That serves several functions: it takes the total number of steps from one limit switch to the other and stores those values into memory. The other reason is that you may want to fully open or fully close the valve before shutting down the equipment.

ketel3 · « **Reply #38 on:** November 25, 2018, 11:10:56 PM »

I think I know why Swestill asked that question about how many sensors.
If you want to control the output you better can have a sensor about 50 cm lower than the output,in that way you can anticipate at output rate and the pid function will stabiliase after a short time and has time to control the output,if you measure near the output you are always to late to correct the output.

This was also writen by Edwin about the perstaltic pump project,and came from the ones mentioned Earc Swestill discriped.
But you are on track

ShiFu · « **Reply #39 on:** November 26, 2018, 10:09:07 AM »

Well I have to crawl before I can walk, and walk before I can run, and run before I can fly.

I'm just now taking my first baby steps. And I'm using the equipment that I have and am familiar with.

Each small success is built on the previous one. And there has been no real-life success yet. For now I only have a valve that will open and close if it senses heat above its SetPoint. That's a great start but it is far from real-life success.

Today I hope to get about 2 or 3 gallons of 65% alcohol to put in the still for testing - even if I need to use the same alcohol over and over for more testing.
Then begin to complete two fully functional PID units.
I already have one setup on a Mega and one setup on a Uno. They are both programmed and have displays, a temperature sensor, a stepper motor and motor driver, power supplies, and Lots and Lots of spaghetti wires going everywhere.
One unit, the Mega, has the sliding mechanism for the valve and limit switches, so it is mostly complete.
The other unit, the Uno, still needs all of that worked out. It does not have the sliding mechanism or limit switches in place yet.

I'll need a few days to put all of this together and figure out the acceptable PID settings and gather and record the data.

For me, at this time, I'm focused on getting two units working. One for my CM reflux and another for the product condenser.
If successful I'll have taken a giant leap forward in being able to automatically control my still.
If not successful, I'll try to identify the problems and correct them if I can. Then move forward one more baby step.

And if, and that a BIG IF, everything works great, then it will be time to take it all completely apart and rebuild it.
It will need the nice things like a dedicated Printed Circuit Board to clean up all that spaghetti wiring, customized limit switches to more accurately control the motor, and certainly it will need some sort of enclosure.

Baby steps, you know?