Author Topic: Cleaning the Off Flavors (Read 24072 times)

ShiFu · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2016, 11:09:03 AM »

I'm starting to think it was a Combination of Sugar and Temperature.
By using less sugar it may have been a cleaner tasting ferment at the high temperature.
Certainly a cooler temperature would have helped regardless of the sugar level.

Ketel3, I saw no signs of infection. The yeast took off like a rocket and was trying to push the water out of the air lock.
Everything was cleaned and sanitized and the ferment was furious in less than an hour after pitching the yeast.

Hoping the bicarb or the barley malt arrives soon. Tan has a list of projects for me to do and distilling is one of my best excuses for not doing any of that

ketel3 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13, 2016, 01:27:19 PM »

Quote from: ShiFu on August 13, 2016, 11:09:03 AM

I'm starting to think it was a Combination of Sugar and Temperature.
By using less sugar it may have been a cleaner tasting ferment at the high temperature.
Certainly a cooler temperature would have helped regardless of the sugar level.

Ketel3, I saw no signs of infection. The yeast took off like a rocket and was trying to push the water out of the air lock.
Everything was cleaned and sanitized and the ferment was furious in less than an hour after pitching the yeast.

Hoping the bicarb or the barley malt arrives soon. Tan has a list of projects for me to do and distilling is one of my best excuses for not doing any of that

I use my secret weapon,and tell her we are runnig out of amaretto.

Yep temp/sugar control is the way to go.

ShiFu · « **Reply #22 on:** August 15, 2016, 01:10:56 PM »

The bicarb arrived today.
I mixed 300 grams into 3 liters of warm water until it was completely dissolved and clear.
Then mixed that into about 4 liters of 95% skanky alcohol and the whole thing turned white as milk.
It is slowly turning clear again starting at the bottom and working its way up.

ShiFu · « **Reply #23 on:** August 15, 2016, 01:43:59 PM »

So I gave it a good stir and now it is slowly clearing from the top down. Are you confused yet? I am

ketel3 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 15, 2016, 01:46:18 PM »

Is there any change in smell yet ?

I was reading about a guy who wrote the offsmell was almost gone after a short time.

ShiFu · « **Reply #25 on:** August 15, 2016, 01:51:32 PM »

Yes, ketel3, it has only been half an hour but it does smell better.

ketel3 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 15, 2016, 01:57:12 PM »

Aha this is a good sign

The white solution mabe oxigene into the mixture ?
On the other hand a reaction with acidity ?
Is there is any sediment on the bottom or is it complete disolved.
Is there any temperature change ?

ShiFu · « **Reply #27 on:** August 15, 2016, 02:15:40 PM »

Cleaning the Off Flavors

bicarb clearing.png (122.42 kB. 350x466 - viewed 997 times.)

I don't know the chemistry involved. It does not feel warmer.
If I recall correctly, this will settle to the bottom and be quite hard. And hard to clean.

ketel3 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 15, 2016, 02:39:20 PM »

I photo says more than words, first let see how is clears up.
Never have seen this test done so we can all benefit from that.

ShiFu · « **Reply #29 on:** August 15, 2016, 03:49:47 PM »

I'll let it settle for however long it takes. Then distill it again.
And keep you updated on the progress.

This is new to me. When I did this before, I just tossed in a few handfuls of bicarb directly to the low wines. This time I dissolved it completely in warm water and added it to the low wines. This seems to have much more reaction than I remember it. I do not remember seeing the entire jug turn white.

law-of-ohms · « **Reply #30 on:** August 15, 2016, 05:17:32 PM »

bicarb for acid, peroxide for tails, i'll try the peroxide over the next few days on a yucky batch.

ShiFu · « **Reply #31 on:** August 15, 2016, 05:52:16 PM »

I've also heard about using hydrogen peroxide to stretch more hearts cut out of tails when making vodka.
Never done it but interested in your results lawman.

ShiFu · « **Reply #32 on:** August 16, 2016, 06:24:15 AM »

I put a mark on the jug 10 hours before this picture was taken.
The clearing process has slowed considerably.

Cleaning the Off Flavors

marked.png (133 kB. 350x466 - viewed 807 times.)

I used very warm water to dissolve the bicarb and added that to the high proof alcohol.
Heat may be a driver for the clearing process, I don't know for sure.
I'll leave it for now but if it stalls I'll put the jug in a pot of warm water to see if the settling will accelerate.

ShiFu · « **Reply #33 on:** August 16, 2016, 06:59:12 AM »

Just now I took a small sample of the clear liquid and added it and a good splash of cold water to my cup.
Even though this is strip - heads, hearts and early tails - it was Wonderful! Fores and most of the tails have been discarded.
No bad smells or flavors AT ALL.
After it clears and goes through the still again it will be fantastic vodka.

This is going to be a success. Now patience Grasshopper, the clearing will take a very long time.
A wise old distiller told me that Distilling is Patience. We think in years, even decades.
Not me! This is sugar vodka not million year old scotch.

We could use a chemist to tell us how to speed up the settling. Maybe something simple like a small addition of table salt? But not knowing what to do the best course is to do nothing. Wait and see, and practice the patience thing.

ShiFu · « **Reply #34 on:** August 16, 2016, 09:00:31 AM »

Not being one to overdo the patience thing...
I took some of the milky stuff from the 15L jug and put a sample in two small flasks.

Cleaning the Off Flavors

samples.png (124.94 kB. 350x262 - viewed 851 times.)

I put the larger flask in a warn water bath. Then mixed a little table salt (just a pinch) in a little hot water and added that to the smaller Erlenmeyer flask.

Cleaning the Off Flavors

warm bath.png (116.69 kB. 350x262 - viewed 808 times.)

Cleaning the Off Flavors

brine added to erlenmeyer1.png (208.29 kB. 350x466 - viewed 779 times.)

I then combined the two flasks together and back into the warm bath.

Cleaning the Off Flavors

20mins in warm bath.png (164.32 kB. 350x466 - viewed 729 times.)

The hot salt water in the Erlenmeyer was a slightly different reaction. There were small bubbles rising up from the milky mass and it began clearing very quickly. The other flask, no salt added, was a little slower to clear.

So a little heat is the accelerant in the clearing process. Not much heat is needed, just warm to the touch is enough.

I transferred the contents from the 15L jug at a 10L so it would fit in a pot for the kitchen stove. After half an hour in the water bath this is the results...

Cleaning the Off Flavors

half hour warm bath.png (253.35 kB. 350x466 - viewed 694 times.)

And now for the strange bit... after it has cleared to a certain level you can give it all a good stir and it will quickly clear back to that level. At least it does while it is warm.

ShiFu · « **Reply #35 on:** August 16, 2016, 10:46:27 AM »

I racked off the clear liquid to the 15L jug and added 2 liters of warm water to the milky 10L jug.
After a good stir to create a whirlpool it dropped the remaining soda immediately into a nice little heap in the center of the 10L jug.

Cleaning the Off Flavors

racking.png (160.38 kB. 350x262 - viewed 753 times.)

Cleaning the Off Flavors

whirlpooled.png (138.93 kB. 350x262 - viewed 771 times.)

Cleaning the Off Flavors

final at 30ABV.png (161.6 kB. 350x262 - viewed 703 times.)

It is now ready for the still.

A few observations:

*The dosage of 100 grams of sodium bicarbonate per liter of 95% alcohol could probably be cut in half to 50g/L but that would be an experiment for another day.
*The use of salt is not necessary.
*Gentle heat speeds things along.
*The lower the ABV the faster the bicarb seems to work and to dissipate to the bottom. I would guess that 30 to 40% ABV would be better than the 95% that I started with.
*It is definitely worth doing this.

law-of-ohms · « **Reply #36 on:** August 16, 2016, 11:04:43 AM »

"Sodium Bicarbonate, commonly called baking soda, is a white odourless, crystalline solid, completely soluble in water but slightly soluble in ethanol. It is the mildest of all sodium alkalis"

dilute 95% down to %40 first then add....

ketel3 · « **Reply #37 on:** August 16, 2016, 01:39:06 PM »

Very nice test,I'am impressed.
If the result is already that good,it only can get better after distilling.

Question what happens in the ketel ,as more alcohol leaves the ketel the concentration of the bicarp will rise,so it needs quit a bit of water added to keep it disolved or not?
Loved the photo's and explanation thanks.
Happy distilling

ShiFu · « **Reply #38 on:** August 16, 2016, 02:43:12 PM »

As law-of-ohms noted, " completely soluble in water but slightly soluble in ethanol".
Much of it dropped out of solution as you can see in the pictures above.
What little was left that was dissolved in the low wines was added to the boiler but I was pulling azeotrope (above 95% ABV) so almost no water was removed from the boiler. The soda stayed in the water that was in the boiler.

Cleaning the Off Flavors

done.png (175.77 kB. 350x262 - viewed 706 times.)

On the left is about 1.5 liters to be recycled. I could have had more to recycle but my habit is to shut down the still when I know that I'm pulling tails.
On the right is 7.5 to 8 liters of 42% Very Clean Vodka. Fine for sipping - no bite, burn or off-flavors. Also good for mixing.

A nice summertime mixer is:
Chop up 1 medium lemon (skin, seeds and all) and add to a small pot
A generous handful of fresh mint from the garden
1 cup of sugar
1 liter of water

Heat together at a simmer without boiling for 5 minutes. Let cool and filter.

Add equal parts of the mixer and vodka. Sometimes I'll sprinkle a pinch of salt on top.
Adjust ingredients to your liking. Sweeter, less sweet, more mint, no mint... all up to your taste buds.

ketel3 · « **Reply #39 on:** August 16, 2016, 03:43:51 PM »

great as things work out ok.
We have to stay open for new inventions.

Recipy noted