My attempt at controlling the Dephlem

[wiifm]

I like where LOO is going with this.  If it can be done with Arduino control, it is a winner in my books.

Just putting out an idea I have for the use of solenoid valves and this will be my next experiment.  Currently I have water at pressure on the RC inlet and a solenoid valve on the outlet in series with a flow control valve.  So in the RC, there is either no coolant flow or whatever the flow is set by the meter. 

As ShiFu has stated, there are times when the RC flow is off for a long period, which allows vapor to pass rapidly, which is frustrating.

I plan to put a metered outlet in parallel with the solenoid valve, so there is always a minimum of flow through the RC. Setting this would control the maximum flow of output from the still.

Then, setting the flow inline with the solenoid valve would control the minimum flow of output from the still.

In other words, setting one meter would control the minimum coolant flow and setting the other would control the maximum.

[ShiFu]

What a great idea. That would keep the PID controller active but not needing to constantly slam the solenoid valve on and off. 

[Myles]

I tried something simmilar on my packed column with 2 gate valves.

 1 preset for heads removal in CM/PM mode via the air vent on the reflux condenser and a dedicated liebig and the 2nd gate valve for normal VM use.

My attempt at controlling the Dephlem
Photo0086.jpg (2095.57 kB. 350x262 - viewed 1014 times.)

It worked for me so I am sure some sort of stepper motor or worm drive arrangement on a valve will work just fine. Better control than just on/off.

[ShiFu]

Received a bigger stepper motor (same bracket size but twice as long) and a different driver today, Micro Driver DM542.
Even with the inadequate 24v power supply it seems to have plenty of torque to turn the needle valve but the motor gets a little hot. Hoping a power supply that can deliver enough amps will solve these issues but I'm liking the bit of progress.

Train tickets are purchased for the trip to the 3D printer convention and we'll stay the night at a hotel near the convention center so we won't feel rushed or exhausted. Those of you that have followed my year long quest of getting a 3D printer past the finance committee will appreciate how close I am to success. How can she possibly say no now?
I've announced a budget of 10,000 RMB (about $1500 USD) for a good one because I think we can get a nice one for about half that. 
Nefarious and devious me has also planted seeds for getting a small, desktop sized CNC mill as well. That MAY be pushing things but I'm certain that little CNC mills be also be at the convention.  And if the 3D printer And the little CNC mill can both be had for the allotted budget... well, you get the idea.  Nefarious and devious 

I've been to enough of these conventions to know the Do's and the Dont's:

Do wear your most comfortable shoes because you will be on your feet all day. You WILL get tired.
Do get there early (by 9 AM) and plan to stay all day if you hope to see even half of all of it.
Do not give your correct phone number or email address during the entry registration. (Your passport will be needed).
Do bring water as that is hard to find there.
Do NOT accept any literature or handouts from any vendor unless you want to spend half an hour being quizzed about your life story, your business and how they can contact you (again, Never give out your real phone number or email address).
Do expect to take a very long time to get through the queue for a toilet. 
Do expect to pay dearly for anything to eat while in the convention center.
Do not look a vendor in the eye or dwell for any time at his booth unless you want to create a business relationship.
NEVER show your excitement when you see something that you are profoundly interested in. It is far better to look and act like, "What is that used for? No, I have no need for that. Why is it so expensive? Maybe I have a friend that needs one or can sell it, OK, I'll take your catalog (but it is not for me). 
Do not give out your (real) business card with your (real) phone number and email address unless you want to establish a long term business relationship.

Remember, your body language can give you away.  They can sense when you are interested so pay attention to that.  As a foreigner, you are RICH (even if you are not) and that works both For and Against you. You get the attention but are also expected to pay 2, 5, or even 10 times the real price. And this is the truth that you need to write down or tattoo on your skin, so Bring a Chinese to negotiate with another Chinese. If I can't do it after a decade of living in China then why would you think that you can do it??   

And still, after all the above rules, you will need a large suitcase to carry all of the catalogues that you collected. 
And you will get a lot more junk emails. 
You will be exhausted and you will want to go again. 




***   My first convention in China was in Guangzhou in May of 2003.
I had a full beard then and scared the crap out of everyone. 

[weddy]

Shifu why do you use 24v ?
Why dont you use 12v and a 30amp suply, they cost not much and got lots of spare amps.
And you can use the 12v to fed the rest of all your electronics (screen, audio amp ,mega,)
I was looking at the diy bracket it looks like the stepper motor is fixed at the bracket but whit a needle valve you want it to slide a bit because the needle will come out when you open it. EDIT(i didnt look good, the valve is able to move )
And of course good luck whit buying a 3d printer you will get a good look on how they use the stepper motors.

Edwin

[ShiFu]

The specs for the motor calls for 24 volt. I know, there is a lot of debate and wiggle room about stepper motors but I am trying to adhere to the manufacturer's specifications.

But honestly, I'm open to ideas and glad you pointed this out, weddy.

I noted the stepper bracket would not work "as is" and you found the reason why, the throw of the valve stem as it increases in length as it opens. 
We're working on that but it takes a back seat to getting all the parts figured out. Once we know what hardware to measure for,  then we can create the needed "slip" for the valve. 

I find it interesting that you are the only one to pick up on that, weddy. Are you the stepper motor guru that I am looking for? 

[weddy]

Im not a guru ahahaha
I have build a 3d printer and whit that in mind i know a litle bit of stepper motors.
But back then i used the nema 17 stepper motor whit a arduino and a ramp board.
This sort of setup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c-4CD_pn8E

Edwin

[weddy]

Shifu maybe this is the solution?
Dont look at how its made i did it in a rush.
Just a idea.

My attempt at controlling the Dephlem

Edwin

[Eucyblues]

Simple and effective Weddy, well done..

[wiifm]

I saw the internals of a motorized ball valve this morning. That 'tongue n groove' arrangement is exactly what they had

[weddy]

Hello to you all.
After a bad night, thinking about how to control a needle valve.
I search the complete google database and end up whit verry expensive needle valve whit a stepper motor but prices up to 1000 dollar.
Hmmmm that's not the way i want it.
Then i came across a electric expansion valve that's used for airco's.
It uses a needle valve and a stepper motor, the only question is can it be used whit a arduino ?
Those valve's are around the 30 dollar on aliexpress https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/3-5KW-R407c-Electronic-Expansion-Valve-EEV-replace-Danfoss-Electronic-Expansion-Valve/32672500211.html?spm=2114.48010508.4.12.WKg2pH
Just my 2 cents.

Edwin

[ShiFu]

I saw this on thingiverse (the mega site for all things about 3D printing).

My attempt at controlling the Dephlem
from Thingiverse.PNG (131.47 kB. 350x383 - viewed 919 times.)

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1696851

We have returned from the 3D printer convention and, with the hundreds and hundreds of printers to choose from, my mind was like a can of worms and just couldn't decide which one to buy. From $200 to many tens of thousands of dollars, from being able to print with ABS or not, heated bed or not, more than one color or not, fully enclosed or not, and the list goes on and on. But mostly it is about print size. Resolution, or the "fineness" of the print, was mostly the same for every printer that I saw. All of the objects that the different printers made looked flawless.   

There were no small CNC mills there as I'd hoped - only a few truly massive ones that were about the size of our apartment. 

But the show stopper, for me, was the Metal 3D printing. Basically a metal dust is wiped across the print surface and a laser fuses the dust into the desired shape one tiny profile slice at a time. Then there were vendors printing food, like candies and even pancakes.
The ceramic booth also caught my eye. You print with a special filament and when done it is baked (kilned) for two days. What emerges then is medical replacement parts for your bones, skull or whatever else you can think of - perhaps a super sharp knife? 

I'm thinking for my modest needs, even the simplest and cheapest printer would do the job. Naturally, I'd like the more expensive models that are 3D printers on steroids but would gladly accept a printer on Benadryl.  A print area of 20 x 15 x 20 CM would be more than adequate. I'd like to have the ability to use ABS but again that is not absolutely necessary as PLA filament should do just fine. As a note, ALL 3D printers use PLA but to use ABS the printer needs to have a heated bed and climate control for a successful ABS print. ABS also shrinks more when it cools so that must be compensated for in the design model. 

Oh my, I have learned so much about 3D printing yet I've never printed anything yet. 

[YHB]

Welcome Back.

I no so little about 3D printers, but one question that I am sure you have looked at. What do the consumables cost?

With the 2D variety it always looks to me that the manufacturers give away the printers so that you have to buy their ink at highly inflated prices.

Is the filler plastic universal or specific to one machine / nozzle?

[ShiFu]

The plastic filament (it looks like very thick fishing line) is available from many sources and is fairly low cost. It is universal. 
Some companies only produce and sell the filament and nothing else.
There are only two different sizes. 1.75mm and 3mm with the 3mm being slowly phased out.
The "extruder" is the device that grips the filament and pushes it through the heated nozzle (also called the Hot End). 
Older machines placed the extruder close to the reel of filament where the newer machines place the extruder close to the hot end.
The older machines needed the thicker filament to "Push" it about 1/2 a meter to the hot end where the newer printers are able to easily Pull it to the hot end only a few centimeters away. 

As for costs, it seems quite reasonable. I got quotes of about $10 for 1 Kg reel for PLA and one Kg would print many small parts.  (Strangely, a 0.5 Kg reel also costs about $10 and a "standard" 3Kg reel was about $30. 
And there are SO many kinds of filaments. I imagine some are expensive but I have no pricing for those yet.
I saw "wood grain" filament where the printed object looked very much like wood. There is clear filament and also many colors. Even ABS (known as All Black Stuff) does not need to be black - it also comes in other colors. 
There is carbon fiber filament, rigid and flexible filament, and High End Specialty filaments like the medical grade that gets kilned for 2 days before implanting into a human body. There is even electrically conductive filament (for making printed circuit boards?). No idea about their costs but its probably not something I'd need. Some printers can even mix colors by melting more than one filament before it reaches the hot end while other printers have two hot ends for two different colors. Some printers have a "fine" and a "course" nozzle so the outer surface can have a great appearance by using the fine hot end and then use the course hot end for rapid fill of the infill.

Like I said, there are too many choices and new ideas and features are coming out daily. 

There are even machines available for sale, and DIY kits also, that allow you to recycle plastics (usually soda bottles) into filament.  The problem I can see with DIY filament is consistency. You don't want much variation in the filament (a section thicker or thinner than other sections) as it would affect the print or, worse, plug the hot end. 

Surely if HP could make their 10,000% markup on filament they would have entered the 3D printer market but I guess they couldn't find a way to trap the customer into buying the consumables at their outrageous prices. 

Which leads to what I think would be an opportunity for someone... as governments are quick to give loans, grants, tax breaks and other incentives to anyone that recycles something and has "Green" in their company name. Recycling plastic for the "Green" use in 3D printing would be a win for everyone. The raw materials are cheap, often free and in some cases you get paid to take them! Then melted, extruded and wound onto a plastic reel that is also made with recycled plastic. Good for the environment, great for the company and the customer, and wonderful for the government as they get a "Green" photo-op showing how they care about the environment.

Another 3D printer convention is scheduled for November but I need to decide on one now. I've already put this off for far too long. 

[Eucyblues]

Then you'll have to tackle the modelling software

Or convince Tan to let you buy a 3d scanner...??

[Myles]

Interesting, no lasers then? I thought that was what you were talking about. Shows how much I know!!!

[ShiFu]

We saw lots of 3D scanners at the trade show and most were expensive jokes. BUT a few were not! They were amazing but so was the price. I think we'll wait on that.

We pulled the trigger and ordered a low end 3D printer today. About 200 bucks with a print size of 200mm x 200mm x 200mm.  Plenty enough for me to learn on. 

This one should give me the experience needed to know what to truly look for in the future.
We ordered an extra nozzle and spare spool of PLA filament. It comes with a roll of white so we chose green.  All in, with shipping and everything, about $230 USD.
I guess we'll see if this is a wise choice or not for our first printer.

With thousands and thousands of ready-to-print parts (they call them Things) on thingiverse it should be easy to have some initial success.
I strongly suspect that display bezels will be high on the To Print List as I've always wanted one to dress up the show side of microcontrollers. 

And then I see stuff that can be printed that cannot be easily had here - like net cups for the garden and little clasps to hold plant stems to bamboo stakes, and, and, and....
And one of those, too. OOH, gotta print that! And not really sure what that does but it looks cool, if there is any PLA left then maybe print that as well 



myFirst3Dprinter.jpg (38.18 kB. 341x396 - viewed 552 times.)

But back on thread... 

Not sure yet if (3D printed) plastic can replace the aluminum shaft coupling for the stepper-to-needle valve but its worth a shot to find out. 

Interesting, no lasers then? I thought that was what you were talking about. Shows how much I know!!!

A 3D printer is very similar to a CNC mill or router (they all have X, Y and Z axis).  X is side to side. Y is front to back and Z is up and down. 
A CNC laser cutter or etching machine is usually little more than replacing the spindle (the motor that holds the cutting tool) on a CNC mill or router with a laser head. 

These can be hobby sized or full blown high powered slice-through-steel with incredible precision.  Apparently it vaporizes a kerf so fine that the kerf can almost not be seen with the naked eye.

3D printing does not involve lasers (not yet!).  Its about melting plastic and squeezing it at just the right place to build up layers until an object is created.
3D Scanning does involve lasers, something to do with how long it takes for the laser light to return to its source...  a bit beyond my abilities to fully understand.

Maybe you are ahead of your time, Myles. Combining lasers with 3D printing may be something that the clever folks are working on. 

Edit:  Oh! METAL 3D printing does involve lasers to fuse the metal dust to build up the layers. It is very slow but AWESOME to watch.   

[Myles]

Sorry when you started this off, I looked up Selective Laser Sintering machines as I thought that was what you were talking about. fusing powder to build up 3D objects with moving parts like gearboxes. Different thing apparently. And probably ridiculously expensive.

Looking forwards to seeing what products you make. Customer designed made to order front panels to fit IP65 steel wall boxes for control units?

[ShiFu]

Sintering? Oh my, a whole different technology and manufacturing process. But one that is also WAY COOL. 
Almost Zero waste, high precision and only useful if you are thinking in terms of thousands of exactly the same parts produced. 

A metal power is compressed into a high strength mould and the resulting "billet" is fired in a VERY high temperature oven. Then the part goes though a final machining and hardening. 

A truly lovely way to produce molded metal parts if the hugh minimum order can be met.
It is then cost effective because the expensive mould costs are offset by the decreaded amount of waste material and machining time.

They say the parts that are made by sintering are stronger than if machined from soild block but the one time that I had it done for a special tool bit I fould that was not true. 
The tool bits shattered much easier than when machined from tool steel and hardened.

[weddy]

Shifu does this 3d printer also use a arduino mega ?
There are a lot of settings for every stepper motor to get the right speed.
that toke me more then a month to get a printable object that was looking like the example.
I was a bit disappointed about the smoothness of the printed objects.
I always saw the layers of filament that i printed.
But it was a nice thing to build.


Edwin