Deph Control by Motorised Ball Valve

[Eucyblues]

Has anyone tried a motorised ball valve ?

About 5 secs open to shut - no slamming, and I'm thinking that if power was timed/pulsed, it could be stopped partway to act as a pseudo proportional valve ...I haven't found any small motorised V-port valves, but even a full bore globe valve would work, particularly if coupled with some PWM control

[ShiFu]

Has anyone tried a motorised ball valve ?

About 5 secs open to shut - no slamming, and I'm thinking that if power was timed/pulsed, it could be stopped partway to act as a pseudo proportional valve ...I haven't found any small motorised V-port valves, but even a full bore globe valve would work, particularly if coupled with some PWM control

The only motorized ball valves I've seen are spring loaded and are ordered "normally open" or "normally closed". When the power is applied (usually 12 VDC) the valve is activated. When the power falls below the threshold the valve either opens or closes to its normal position. I don't know how difficult it would be to get the valve to "hold" at a set angle. 

I haven't been able to calculate any costs yet since the parts have not arrived to test for the stepper motor stuff. I got in one small stepper and a driver but my 24V power supply is not up to the task, will need to order another with sufficient amps (thinking 3 amps, minimum but 5 or more to be safe when the bigger steppers arrive).
Constant piddling got little results so far as my lame 24v supply of unknown amperage can't seem to source enough current for the stepper to have any kind of torque or holding power.

So far:
a SS needle valve about $4
57BYG250B, 1.2N.M., 586mm, (size 57?) stepper with MicroStep Driver about $17
24vdc power supply (from one of my junk boxes) $0
8mm shaft coupling, couple of bucks
Arduino, couple of bucks

Tomorrow ends the 3 day Mid Autumn holiday and we can begin to order again but probably won't. In only 3 more days we'll be attending the 3D printer convention, yea!

Its been a very long time since I've tinkered with stepper motors and the price for these parts are shockingly cheap now. What used to cost $125 can be had for less than $10 (drivers) and if you are more clever than I am the price could be as little as 2 bucks for the chip and a few electronic bits (Pololu A4988 Stepper Motor Driver Carrier). 
https://www.pololu.com/product/1182/faqs

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=44337290302&ali_refid=a3_430583_1006:1109983619:N:A4988:f053d256f2a2502efbc98e8ed52d8ba6&ali_trackid=1_f053d256f2a2502efbc98e8ed52d8ba6&spm=a230r.1.14.1.15ILwr

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.4.4bpMdQ&id=41254743320&ad_id=&am_id=&cm_id=140105335569ed55e27b&pm_id=&abbucket=4

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.xeFDIX&id=529550859038&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail

But for now its trial and error to size the parts together that can wrench the needle valve open and closed in a precise way. 

[ketel3]

Have a look at this movie,
Unfortunate the code is not present , mabe on the website they show,but look at how good the valve works on the temperature sensor,this is exactly what you need to control the proces.

[wiifm]

Righto i have convinced myself i am in on this. ShiFu what parts do i need to buy to match you with the push connect needle valve?  LOO can i obtain a bracket from you?

[ketel3]

Have a look at this movie,
Unfortunate the code is not present , mabe on the website they show,but look at how good the valve works on the temperature sensor,this is exactly what you need to control the proces.

Here the link to Russion home distillers  with the exact build  and arduin code
http://forum.homedistiller.ru/index.php?topic=139882.0

[wiifm]

Just had a quick read of the Russian forum thread.  Are they able to set the position of the valve somewhere between open and closed and fix it there?

[ketel3]

The opening is controled by the temperature,so dynamic control,in the software if not already present it will be possible with some coding to do so OR
If you want controle it by hand just overrule the sensor with a potentiometer.

For now I just read all the buitifull projects here on the forum,I may try someting in the winter as there is more time inside or if someone comes up with a very complete build for dummy's   

I just posted this as I looked at it some time ago and there came a quistion here about a ball valve ,different what Shifu is busy with.

[ShiFu]

I'm screwed, my browser won't translate Russian to English 

[ketel3]

ha ha ha woeháaaaaaaaa

[ShiFu]

ha ha ha woeháaaaaaaaa

?

[weddy]

Here is another arduino based valve.
Its a bit rude how its build but the idea is great.
And the code is free
https://sites.google.com/site/bobbsbbqsmoker/

Edwin

[ketel3]

?

My Russion is poor too.
I have a look at it with Googe.

[ketel3]

Here is another arduino based valve.
Its a bit rude how its build but the idea is great.
And the code is free
https://sites.google.com/site/bobbsbbqsmoker/

Edwin

I wil have a look at it  Edwin thanks?.

[Eucyblues]

Has anyone tried a motorised ball valve ?

About 5 secs open to shut - no slamming, and I'm thinking that if power was timed/pulsed, it could be stopped partway to act as a pseudo proportional valve ...I haven't found any small motorised V-port valves, but even a full bore globe valve would work, particularly if coupled with some PWM control

Yes, bingo.. it seems they have ...and I've been crawling through these valves for 2 days now..about $30- $40 Au for one like in the video...won't be proportional because of the bored ball but good enough

Also, the cheaper ones are normally reduced bore..that is, to avoid the need to 'bulge' the valve body at the ball to acommodate a ball big enough to bore the full id of the valve, they put a smaller ball in and drill a smaller dia bore hole in it, so a 15mm valve will have a 12mm bore in the ball..still won't matter for this purpose

[Eucyblues]

Just had a quick read of the Russian forum thread.  Are they able to set the position of the valve somewhere between open and closed and fix it there?

The type of  motor shown just stops when the power cuts..they don't auto-shut (there are some that do so be aware)

So you just pulse the power to suit the opening you want .  Speed control is done the same way

There are limit switches at either end and there are several different wiring configs, 2,3,4 and 5 wires...read up on the differences.  CR04 wiring (2 wires) will shut the valve on power-off (inbuilt caps), This is not what you want..

CR01 wiring is a simple 2 wire connection which can be reverse polarised ..this seems to be what the Russian site uses. This would work

CR05 looks like a fancy version of CR01 with the limit switches separated ..or an extra set ..not sure..but I think that'll work also

If push comes to shove the valve controller could be bypassed I guess

[wiifm]

I ordered the same/similar parts to those used by the guys on the Russian site way back when and they arrived today!

Sorry about the poor lighting, but I think you can get the idea of it.

Attached is a basic sketch that opens the valve then closes the valve repeatedly and measures the time taken to fully open or close. 

Shifu, this won't work because I am using different parts to you, however it might give you a starting point to cut and paste.

Next step for me is to work out a way of calculating the current position of the valve.  I am thinking of performing a calibration function, which measures time to fully open and time to fully close the valve when the pump is on, then simply dividing the time it takes to open/close by 90 and calculating the current position in degrees with a counter of some sort, which is corrected if a limit is hit.

[Eucyblues]

Wiifm, I'm waiting on the same bits

The Russian sketch has a degree count routine, but it won't be proportional, so flow testing or doing some maths on the ball hole opening will be needed

[wiifm]

I had a look at what he did.  Had some declarations for limit signals but didn't actually use them anywhere.  I saw he had manually set a time value required to turn from open to closed over something like 38 steps, then kept count of where he was at, then the logic to control the valve didn't suit what the output of a PID will be, so I started from scratch.

What we come up with will be better.

[ShiFu]

Is this about controlling a Motorized Ball Valve to set it at a desired opening width? Is that even possible given it is normally either fully open or fully closed?

How did that stray this thread from the needle valve that I'm working on and asking for help on? 

Is the motorized ball valve a better alternative?

[wiifm]

Is this about controlling a Motorized Ball Valve to set it at a desired opening width? Is that even possible given it is normally either fully open or fully closed?

How did that stray this thread from the needle valve that I'm working on and asking for help on? 

Is the motorized ball valve a better alternative?

These 2 way motorised ball valves stay in position if no current is applied to the motor.  You apply current in one direction and the valve opens further, the other direction it closes.

On page 2, there is a post linking to a russian site with these parts - that's how it strayed.  The reason I posted here was to share some code in case it might be useful with the context in which it was written.

I don't know if the motorized ball valve is a better alternative. than a stepper motor with needle valve.  There are different obstacles to overcome than creating the coupling. With a stepper motor, unless something untoward happens, you can rely on the step count to know your position whereas you cannot be certain with a normal motor.  The needle valve will have superior control at the fine end.  Also, the limit signals on this valve need debouncing. Currently, when i send short pulses to close the valve a 'step' at a time, the closed signal provides a false interrupt when the valve is still nearly fully open.

As I said, just trying to share some code that may or may not be useful to you.